I have a port on the back. I did run tests for port noise, because the port is small, but it's quiet, the passive radiator is doing at least half the work and actually seems to be doing most of the heavy lifting.
What is dynamic range in a speaker? I've never understood that one, I always thought dynamic range was primarily from the source material and maybe the amplifier...
I know there is power compression, is that the type of thing that would reduce dynamic range in a speaker? Or non-linear magnetic force (BL)? Or non-linear suspension compliance (Cms)?
Initially I thought it might be due to sensitivity. Like a lever, a small input movement close to the fulcrum you get a large movemenent at the end. Higher sensitivity is like making the lever longer. You get more movement for the same input voltage. So even if you turn down the volume to get the same average volume level as a less sensitive speaker, the % difference from quiet to loud is slightly larger on the higher sensitivity speaker.
But I wouldn't be surprised if that is totally false and the real answer is more mundane.
Starting to sound largely a function of headroom... Capacity for high db with acceptable distortion levels. All while not sounding off at reduced listening levels.
The woofers in the Yamaha NS10M studio monitors display this desired performance from my lengthy experience.
A little EQ in nearfield and they sound like headphones at low volume and can get loud and clean - just not useful below about 40 Hz - they are very articulate and punchy/clean.
Once again, all this shit is purely subjective "shit", and no two listeners will describe dynamics quite the same, even with the same speaker please don't take this post as angry, just pointing out definitions differ. To some, punchy bass would be dynamic. Overall I think DrewsBtews is on the right track in general high efficiency speaker give the impression of dynamics.
Just trying to see if there is more of a general consensus on the subject. If we can't have that then we all continue to use the same words with different meanings and no one has a clue what each other is talking about.
A track can be more dynamic and that is easier to quantify. I think speaker dynamics is more subtle.
I've remember Erin Hardison mention speaker dynamics relating to bass response at low volumes, among other things I can't remember. This made sense to me with regard a loudspeakers dynamics. I've always felt the track being played was more of a dynamic factor in any system.
I understand the dynamic range comments and scores, as mine did initially complain (not bottomed) before Chris dropped the level a smidge. After that, they were fine. Not sure I understand Andrew's other 2 comments, especially with graphs like pictured in the build thread. I really loathe a forward speaker, but also loathe an overly neutral, sterile, or dramatically subdued speaker. They have to have some life.
That said, this is a pretty good set of scores for me. A set of averages of 9, 7.5, and 8.83, respectively. Cumulative 8.4 overall.
Makes me wonder what the winning score sheets looked like....
Having seen some of these projects in person and then seeing the judges scores... I totally laugh again at this competition. Are Vance, Andrew, and Jerry blind or what? The craftmanship scores are a total joke.
Thanks, Matt! I like these Wavecor tweeters a lot. At home, the bass fills out nicely and can get fairly impressively loud without breaking a sweat.
Sometimes I wonder if the reason some of my smaller speakers have complained a bit at these events (and not at home) is that I use a Crown Class D amp. The damping factor they have in the bass is like a visegrip. I could not get the RSS210HF4 to wobble at home on Infected Mushroom like they did at events. The amp just wouldn't let them.
(In case anyone was wondering, I got a 147/8.16 last year with the Monoculus, so these Anomalies scored better. Nephila averaged 8.73, but on a 5 score chart and a total of 131.)
@jr@mac said:
I'm so glad most of these events do not place such an emphasis on subjective shit 😉
@PWRRYD said:
Having seen some of these projects in person and then seeing the judges scores... I totally laugh again at this competition. Are Vance, Andrew, and Jerry blind or what? The craftmanship scores are a total joke.
Subjective is subjective. A lot of these look good from afar but are far from good looking. Go easy on the judges too, Jerry and Vance are veterans at this event and Jerry builds plenty of his own gear. (I don't know about Vance.) Its impossible to please everyone. At least they are all judged the same way.
I enjoyed interacting with all of the people in which I was able. I look forward to next year. I told someone that the boss man, Jeff, probably asks his favorite people to work the event because they are delightful. 4 and a half stars. I would go five but I had to talk in front of many people and that's not in my comfort zone.
I'm not impugning the judges, just reminding people this is all subjective shit and some events have gotten rid of the competition aspects precisely because of the accompanying bullshit.
@jr@mac said:
I'm not impugning the judges, just reminding people this is all subjective shit and some events have gotten rid of the competition aspects precisely because of the accompanying bullshit.
You may be preaching to the choir here but, yes, the takeaways of a few dozen people from a scored competition is not the same as the takeaways from an informal get together. Focusing on what is remembered is a helluva lot more useful and productive than focusing on a pile of scoresheets.
Ben, I hate forward sounding speakers too and yours were not forward at InDIYana. Infact, I don't think anyone's speakers there were forward sounding. Everybody did a great job I think as far as tonal balance.
This reminds me, one time I moved to a new area and found a Stereo store. They had topend name brand stuff. I went in and the sales guy wanted to give me a demo. I wish I could remember what brand speakers they were but he cranked them up ( bookshelf speakers with a pair of subwoofers) and I just remember how horrible they sounded. Really bright and FORWARD. He was grinning ear to ear and I just got up and left.
Comments
I have a port on the back. I did run tests for port noise, because the port is small, but it's quiet, the passive radiator is doing at least half the work and actually seems to be doing most of the heavy lifting.
Yep, he had both like you did.
InDIYana Event Website
What is dynamic range in a speaker? I've never understood that one, I always thought dynamic range was primarily from the source material and maybe the amplifier...
I know there is power compression, is that the type of thing that would reduce dynamic range in a speaker? Or non-linear magnetic force (BL)? Or non-linear suspension compliance (Cms)?
I'm glad someone else asked that question lol.
Initially I thought it might be due to sensitivity. Like a lever, a small input movement close to the fulcrum you get a large movemenent at the end. Higher sensitivity is like making the lever longer. You get more movement for the same input voltage. So even if you turn down the volume to get the same average volume level as a less sensitive speaker, the % difference from quiet to loud is slightly larger on the higher sensitivity speaker.
But I wouldn't be surprised if that is totally false and the real answer is more mundane.
Capability to reproduce the soft and loud parts with ease and clarity.
InDIYana Event Website
But what attributes of a driver dictate this effect, Wolf?
Is it cabinet volume/Q of the alignment or?
Starting to sound largely a function of headroom... Capacity for high db with acceptable distortion levels. All while not sounding off at reduced listening levels.
The woofers in the Yamaha NS10M studio monitors display this desired performance from my lengthy experience.
A little EQ in nearfield and they sound like headphones at low volume and can get loud and clean - just not useful below about 40 Hz - they are very articulate and punchy/clean.
Once again, all this shit is purely subjective "shit", and no two listeners will describe dynamics quite the same, even with the same speaker please don't take this post as angry, just pointing out definitions differ. To some, punchy bass would be dynamic. Overall I think DrewsBtews is on the right track in general high efficiency speaker give the impression of dynamics.
Just trying to see if there is more of a general consensus on the subject. If we can't have that then we all continue to use the same words with different meanings and no one has a clue what each other is talking about.
A track can be more dynamic and that is easier to quantify. I think speaker dynamics is more subtle.
Absolutely
I've remember Erin Hardison mention speaker dynamics relating to bass response at low volumes, among other things I can't remember. This made sense to me with regard a loudspeakers dynamics. I've always felt the track being played was more of a dynamic factor in any system.
I could see people viewing a speaker with punchy bass as dynamic...
I still haven't received my scores....
InDIYana Event Website
I agree
Finally got mine today....
I understand the dynamic range comments and scores, as mine did initially complain (not bottomed) before Chris dropped the level a smidge. After that, they were fine. Not sure I understand Andrew's other 2 comments, especially with graphs like pictured in the build thread. I really loathe a forward speaker, but also loathe an overly neutral, sterile, or dramatically subdued speaker. They have to have some life.
That said, this is a pretty good set of scores for me. A set of averages of 9, 7.5, and 8.83, respectively. Cumulative 8.4 overall.
Makes me wonder what the winning score sheets looked like....
InDIYana Event Website
Nice job, Ben! Those were pretty impressive from my chair, which was in a terrible spot.
I'm so glad most of these events do not place such an emphasis on subjective shit 😉
Having seen some of these projects in person and then seeing the judges scores... I totally laugh again at this competition. Are Vance, Andrew, and Jerry blind or what? The craftmanship scores are a total joke.
Thanks, Matt! I like these Wavecor tweeters a lot. At home, the bass fills out nicely and can get fairly impressively loud without breaking a sweat.
Sometimes I wonder if the reason some of my smaller speakers have complained a bit at these events (and not at home) is that I use a Crown Class D amp. The damping factor they have in the bass is like a visegrip. I could not get the RSS210HF4 to wobble at home on Infected Mushroom like they did at events. The amp just wouldn't let them.
(In case anyone was wondering, I got a 147/8.16 last year with the Monoculus, so these Anomalies scored better. Nephila averaged 8.73, but on a 5 score chart and a total of 131.)
InDIYana Event Website
Subjective is subjective. A lot of these look good from afar but are far from good looking. Go easy on the judges too, Jerry and Vance are veterans at this event and Jerry builds plenty of his own gear. (I don't know about Vance.) Its impossible to please everyone. At least they are all judged the same way.
I enjoyed interacting with all of the people in which I was able. I look forward to next year. I told someone that the boss man, Jeff, probably asks his favorite people to work the event because they are delightful. 4 and a half stars. I would go five but I had to talk in front of many people and that's not in my comfort zone.
I'm not impugning the judges, just reminding people this is all subjective shit and some events have gotten rid of the competition aspects precisely because of the accompanying bullshit.
You may be preaching to the choir here but, yes, the takeaways of a few dozen people from a scored competition is not the same as the takeaways from an informal get together. Focusing on what is remembered is a helluva lot more useful and productive than focusing on a pile of scoresheets.
Okay, as you were.
Ben, I hate forward sounding speakers too and yours were not forward at InDIYana. Infact, I don't think anyone's speakers there were forward sounding. Everybody did a great job I think as far as tonal balance.
IDK about you guys but, I prefer listening to forward speakers over backward ones.
Yeah, but when it's so forward you can't drink your beer..... gotta draw the line.
Bose built a successful business out of backward speakers.
So true, and this year they quit repairing the 901s.
This reminds me, one time I moved to a new area and found a Stereo store. They had topend name brand stuff. I went in and the sales guy wanted to give me a demo. I wish I could remember what brand speakers they were but he cranked them up ( bookshelf speakers with a pair of subwoofers) and I just remember how horrible they sounded. Really bright and FORWARD. He was grinning ear to ear and I just got up and left.