@jhollander said:
I still get a kick out of it. I listen and score all the speakers and try to guess WTH were the judges thinking. It's interesting to see people and entries who typically aren't involved with the forum or Indy. I think I have scores back to 2013.
Yeah, John and I usually sit next to each other to both keep track and see if we agree. Usually, we are pretty close in guesses of placement. It can be fun!
I've never built anything "for" the PE competition. It's just one of the events to attend during the year and happens to be a competition sponsored by a commercial business. Of course I lived in Cincinnati, and now that I don't most family still does, so it's a given for me.
There is a monetary incentive to win at MWAF and the tent sale is fun. I've only gone once and the only downside was listening to someone ramble on for 1/2 hour about their $10,000 open unlimited mono system.
I'm thinking of bringing a large wide ranger with a super tweeter. Over $300, but not by much. Interesting? probably... Competitive? probably not... They were my main speakers for over a year, however.
I'm also planning to carpool with a friend who is bringing some speakers for the Dayton class...
Tent sale 2023 was weak, though I did pick up a ultimax 18 for 75 bucks plus the 20% participant discount. Couple months later shelled out the 200 bucks for 4 cuft flatpack for that driver. Tent sale in 2019, last time went prior, was great where picked up some NOS HSU 2.5 cuft rosewood enclosures and some at your own risk plate amps that worked fine. Those monsters are up in the young adult (children commuting to college) bonus/media room.
Last year was my first time entering an event, to force self to do the best I can, I like pressure. I had issues jumping straight to a 3 way after couple quasi ok 2 way attempts. Had mid tweet sounding good but bass terrible and that make or break a speaker. Tried long ago in mid late 2000's to get into diy speaker building with lspcad, the jig, etc. but failed and gave up. Plus I already had a speaker I was happy with. I spent more time on diy electronics/amps but then 2010-2019 I left audio, too many life challenges and burn out dealing with all the crazy people.
Imagine will enter the >300 using things on hand, plus if have anything NLA default to that group. Dont have enough nearby friends to gift projects to so not buy anything specific for a category, though was tempted to make walmart kents using sb4 coax that already have, and the pfrc drivers so frugal. But meh, would rather try to set goals high. And f***, sure people rip thru more cash on incidentals of the hobby than the 'reward' - it'd be a poor business plan.
I might go to this. Not sure yet. Will have to see how the money is to fund the trip. Not sure what speaker to bring but I have several to choose from.
What I found interesting in the 300+ list were the Dire Straits and Bonnie Raitt cuts in that they have both been used before at MWAF, and that I actually used both of them in voicing my Anomalies V2. I had not heard the Castelluci or Swims cuts before seeing this list.
The Castelucci track might present a challenge for the smaller speakers. I know it lit up my subs the first time the algorithm on Amazon recommended it.
Sigh, I haven't done any audio projects in months. Too many other hobbies, family gatherings, and house projects. Faux Pas may make their last hurrah there before retiring from the events.
Any wisdom on what they are gauging with the >300 category songs?
Seems the Dire Straits vocals bit set back and that track, maybe mastered to give impression of sitting on a stool. The Swims song easy to get that 'audiophile bling' with how it was mastered. So tired of hearing that Raitt song over and over heh - hell I think when visited SDC in 2007 heard that track but think bah nah nah a nah stuck in my head from that era.
From those 2 tracks seems like someone could easily end up voicing too bright. Though I'm near done voicing to my liking for what I listen to, and know what shooting for, with completely diff genre's than the typical tracks.
Guess I need order a cd burner - they not exist in my home. Was early streaming person with squeeze box, ack dac and flac 20 years ago now then lost my box of cd's to housing disaster in 2013.
Oh yeah, whats the typical spl level used? Know it from approximately judges distance, imagine someone knows X spl at Y feet away.
Oh yeah, whats the typical spl level used? Know it from approximately judges distance, imagine someone knows X spl at Y feet away.
A few years ago, I sat in the row right behind the laptop that was being used to set levels. The actual microphone (an OmniMic) was positioned on a tripod located about 9 feet on center between the two speakers, immediately in front of the judges table. As I recall, the OmniMic software was set to the SPL/Specturm screen (can't remember which weighting was selected, ie., none, a, b, or c weight). They played the pseudo noise test track and adjusted the level so that the SPL meter bounced up and down between about 80 to 82dB for each speaker. Then the 3 minute music track played.
But this was just one particular year. I know that the level setting system that they have used has varied from year to year. Try doing a search on "MWAF" on the PETT forum. People often discuss and/or complain about whether or not the level setting seemed fair during the event. One year they used a very "thin" sounding noise track to set levels and this did not seem to work out very well at all. But most of the time I think they use the same pseudo noise track that is on the OmniMic test disc (at least it sounds that way to me).
I actually used 2 of the 3 songs for the 300+ to voice my Anomalies before I knew they would be used. Relative output is usually between 75-80dB at the judges' listening position.
The Raitt cut was one of my favorites last year. I went out and bought it after this past SDC. I'll be first to admit I like my rock and heavy music, but I also listen to a lot of music that isn't. Whenever it came on, if it was the right balance I would just melt into my chair. The soft 3-tap in the back, the voice with no hard edges, all the well mic'd noises of along with Bonnie singing. Weight in her lower range whether thin or heavy, or the bass weight in the bottom end. The vocal track also easily shows beaming or hot spots in the balance. Just a well recorded track.
The Dire Straights cut has to do with the sense of space for me. On top of that, the distinctness and clarity of the steel guitar and cymbals, along with their individual decays. I have found that acoustic or steel guitar of this style really show how clean drivers are. They get smeary if not. It sounds very 'live' for a studio recording, but the whole On Every Street album sounds this way of like being in a small late night club or bar. If not properly balanced, a speaker will get muddy, be nasal in the vocals, have the wrong spectral tone of the guitar, and hot or soft treble will be easy to tell.
These are my impressions of those tracks, having heard them now many times.
I found my notebook from MWAF 2016, showing my drawing of the OmniMic leveling setup used. Please excuse my somewhat crude drawing, as I sketched this out quickly during the event. Looks like my memory was a little off in terms of SPL levels. I wrote down "white noise" but I'm fairly sure this was the OmniMic pseudo noise test track being used, which might be pink noise (not sure on this, please correct me if I am wrong). SPL at 10 feet was 79-81dB, averaging out to about 80dB. The judges would have been about 12 feet back, so the SPL would be just a tad lower at that distance. When the music track started to play, the SPL/Spectrum meter bounced up and down from approx 75 to 95dB.
Says last year they were at capacity. This year (likely due to limiting to one entry per person) they have 10 time slots left for some additional entries. I can understand they didnt want to possibly turn additional participants away due to a bunch of people submitting multiple entries.
Since I've mostly completed my main >300 entry, registered 2nd entry for under 300 with a guess of a project, wavecor 5.75 and seas 29tff using box already built but no idea how will work out. Tick, tick, tick.... More or less, like at work, I like when the pressure is on - so my secondary entry could be a complete bust but I remember last year someone assembling their project as shoving it into the judgement audition.
Though I listened the >300 test tracks on my chunkers (bastard cousin to Anomalies with same mid tweet) and sounded great, but save those for more intimate event or don't care if ever demo really as they satisfy my needs in fam room duty.
Alright! I now have 2 entries... I recycled my 2019 InDIYana Bare Minimum speakers. They are back to the original Visaton drivers with significant adjustments to the crossovers. No longer benign...
They are in the under 300 class and the 12" wide rangers with super tweeters are in the over 300 class.
I'm also carpooling with a friend who is bringing something for the Dayton class.
Comments
Eric nailed it. I just go to hang out.
Yeah, John and I usually sit next to each other to both keep track and see if we agree. Usually, we are pretty close in guesses of placement. It can be fun!
InDIYana Event Website
Good perspective Eric. Unfortunately it's an 8 hour drive for me so I'll stick with IndDIYana and IowaDIY.
I've never built anything "for" the PE competition. It's just one of the events to attend during the year and happens to be a competition sponsored by a commercial business. Of course I lived in Cincinnati, and now that I don't most family still does, so it's a given for me.
There is a monetary incentive to win at MWAF and the tent sale is fun. I've only gone once and the only downside was listening to someone ramble on for 1/2 hour about their $10,000 open unlimited mono system.
The one time I went I would agree that the tent sale was pretty fun.
I'm thinking of bringing a large wide ranger with a super tweeter. Over $300, but not by much. Interesting? probably... Competitive? probably not... They were my main speakers for over a year, however.
I'm also planning to carpool with a friend who is bringing some speakers for the Dayton class...
Tent sale 2023 was weak, though I did pick up a ultimax 18 for 75 bucks plus the 20% participant discount. Couple months later shelled out the 200 bucks for 4 cuft flatpack for that driver. Tent sale in 2019, last time went prior, was great where picked up some NOS HSU 2.5 cuft rosewood enclosures and some at your own risk plate amps that worked fine. Those monsters are up in the young adult (children commuting to college) bonus/media room.
Last year was my first time entering an event, to force self to do the best I can, I like pressure. I had issues jumping straight to a 3 way after couple quasi ok 2 way attempts. Had mid tweet sounding good but bass terrible and that make or break a speaker. Tried long ago in mid late 2000's to get into diy speaker building with lspcad, the jig, etc. but failed and gave up. Plus I already had a speaker I was happy with. I spent more time on diy electronics/amps but then 2010-2019 I left audio, too many life challenges and burn out dealing with all the crazy people.
Imagine will enter the >300 using things on hand, plus if have anything NLA default to that group. Dont have enough nearby friends to gift projects to so not buy anything specific for a category, though was tempted to make walmart kents using sb4 coax that already have, and the pfrc drivers so frugal. But meh, would rather try to set goals high. And f***, sure people rip thru more cash on incidentals of the hobby than the 'reward' - it'd be a poor business plan.
I might go to this. Not sure yet. Will have to see how the money is to fund the trip. Not sure what speaker to bring but I have several to choose from.
2025 I will be there, might ship a project in. Not sure what but will be smaller for obvious reasons.
Here are the music tracks for 2024
Teddy Swims Lose Control in the Over $300 was going to be on my demo tracks for CSS Detroit - I'll have to decide whether to keep it or not.
Castelluci almost made the cut for Iowa last year.
What I found interesting in the 300+ list were the Dire Straits and Bonnie Raitt cuts in that they have both been used before at MWAF, and that I actually used both of them in voicing my Anomalies V2. I had not heard the Castelluci or Swims cuts before seeing this list.
InDIYana Event Website
The Castelucci track might present a challenge for the smaller speakers. I know it lit up my subs the first time the algorithm on Amazon recommended it.
Sigh, I haven't done any audio projects in months. Too many other hobbies, family gatherings, and house projects. Faux Pas may make their last hurrah there before retiring from the events.
Same. I will be there Saturday for support of my fellow speaker geeks!
Registration closing announcement:
https://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/1504815-2024-speaker-design-competition
Any wisdom on what they are gauging with the >300 category songs?
Seems the Dire Straits vocals bit set back and that track, maybe mastered to give impression of sitting on a stool. The Swims song easy to get that 'audiophile bling' with how it was mastered. So tired of hearing that Raitt song over and over heh - hell I think when visited SDC in 2007 heard that track but think bah nah nah a nah stuck in my head from that era.
From those 2 tracks seems like someone could easily end up voicing too bright. Though I'm near done voicing to my liking for what I listen to, and know what shooting for, with completely diff genre's than the typical tracks.
Guess I need order a cd burner - they not exist in my home. Was early streaming person with squeeze box, ack dac and flac 20 years ago now then lost my box of cd's to housing disaster in 2013.
Oh yeah, whats the typical spl level used? Know it from approximately judges distance, imagine someone knows X spl at Y feet away.
A few years ago, I sat in the row right behind the laptop that was being used to set levels. The actual microphone (an OmniMic) was positioned on a tripod located about 9 feet on center between the two speakers, immediately in front of the judges table. As I recall, the OmniMic software was set to the SPL/Specturm screen (can't remember which weighting was selected, ie., none, a, b, or c weight). They played the pseudo noise test track and adjusted the level so that the SPL meter bounced up and down between about 80 to 82dB for each speaker. Then the 3 minute music track played.
But this was just one particular year. I know that the level setting system that they have used has varied from year to year. Try doing a search on "MWAF" on the PETT forum. People often discuss and/or complain about whether or not the level setting seemed fair during the event. One year they used a very "thin" sounding noise track to set levels and this did not seem to work out very well at all. But most of the time I think they use the same pseudo noise track that is on the OmniMic test disc (at least it sounds that way to me).
I actually used 2 of the 3 songs for the 300+ to voice my Anomalies before I knew they would be used. Relative output is usually between 75-80dB at the judges' listening position.
The Raitt cut was one of my favorites last year. I went out and bought it after this past SDC. I'll be first to admit I like my rock and heavy music, but I also listen to a lot of music that isn't. Whenever it came on, if it was the right balance I would just melt into my chair. The soft 3-tap in the back, the voice with no hard edges, all the well mic'd noises of along with Bonnie singing. Weight in her lower range whether thin or heavy, or the bass weight in the bottom end. The vocal track also easily shows beaming or hot spots in the balance. Just a well recorded track.
The Dire Straights cut has to do with the sense of space for me. On top of that, the distinctness and clarity of the steel guitar and cymbals, along with their individual decays. I have found that acoustic or steel guitar of this style really show how clean drivers are. They get smeary if not. It sounds very 'live' for a studio recording, but the whole On Every Street album sounds this way of like being in a small late night club or bar. If not properly balanced, a speaker will get muddy, be nasal in the vocals, have the wrong spectral tone of the guitar, and hot or soft treble will be easy to tell.
These are my impressions of those tracks, having heard them now many times.
InDIYana Event Website
I found my notebook from MWAF 2016, showing my drawing of the OmniMic leveling setup used. Please excuse my somewhat crude drawing, as I sketched this out quickly during the event. Looks like my memory was a little off in terms of SPL levels. I wrote down "white noise" but I'm fairly sure this was the OmniMic pseudo noise test track being used, which might be pink noise (not sure on this, please correct me if I am wrong). SPL at 10 feet was 79-81dB, averaging out to about 80dB. The judges would have been about 12 feet back, so the SPL would be just a tad lower at that distance. When the music track started to play, the SPL/Spectrum meter bounced up and down from approx 75 to 95dB.
Participants get the email that allowing additional entries by this Sunday?...
Low turn out?
Says last year they were at capacity. This year (likely due to limiting to one entry per person) they have 10 time slots left for some additional entries. I can understand they didnt want to possibly turn additional participants away due to a bunch of people submitting multiple entries.
It'll be just the Anomalies this year for me. I don't have another build ready enough to go that hasn't yet.
InDIYana Event Website
To all here entering - good luck.
I'm maxed out. No room in my car for another pair. (Two 2 cu.ft. bass bins. Separate plate amp boxes. Big 18x15x28" upper cabs. Box of cables. Dolly.)
Since I've mostly completed my main >300 entry, registered 2nd entry for under 300 with a guess of a project, wavecor 5.75 and seas 29tff using box already built but no idea how will work out. Tick, tick, tick.... More or less, like at work, I like when the pressure is on - so my secondary entry could be a complete bust but I remember last year someone assembling their project as shoving it into the judgement audition.
Though I listened the >300 test tracks on my chunkers (bastard cousin to Anomalies with same mid tweet) and sounded great, but save those for more intimate event or don't care if ever demo really as they satisfy my needs in fam room duty.
Alright! I now have 2 entries... I recycled my 2019 InDIYana Bare Minimum speakers. They are back to the original Visaton drivers with significant adjustments to the crossovers. No longer benign...
They are in the under 300 class and the 12" wide rangers with super tweeters are in the over 300 class.
I'm also carpooling with a friend who is bringing something for the Dayton class.
I'm still working my XO for my Entry....