A lot of the newest machines have so much idiot proofing built in they are almost hard to crash. A.I. lenses, load detection, and auto touch off take a lot of skill out of the job.
@jr@mac said:
Guess what I'm saying is quite a few machinist jobs these days are little more than basic machine operation jobs. Do not necessarily require a lot of skill to operate high end CNC machines - the money is in the programming, and even then it takes years to really get to that point.
Production machining on CNC machines takes some skill but it isn't rocket science. I used to maintain an automated CNC complex and it didn't pay all that well in my opinion. That said I just found a 1989 pay stub that indicated I was paid the equivalent of $32.54/hr. No wonder I could afford $1600 worth of ribbon drivers.
I've worked with every trade under the sun and if I hadn't chose to go get my BSEE I would have definitely went into the electrical trade. I have lots of friends who are electricians. Some industrial, some comercial, some residential. They all make really good money and they don't have bad knees, backs, or drink excessively, etc. Can't say that about some other trades.
I drilled through a water pipe two weeks ago and had the emergency plumber come out. I was talking to him about some of the other things I have to get fixed in my house and he commented that the plumbers get paid more than the electricians despite there being more risk for the electricians.
@Wolf said:
Always know where your main water supply shut off valve and pump breaker are.
Luckily for me, when we moved in I made sure to know where the water shut-off was. I drilled through the pipe around midnight on a Sunday. I thought I could hear the water spraying a little within the wall. I wasn't 100% sure I had gone through a water pipe, although I was 90% sure. It turns out the screw went right through the pipe, so was still mostly plugging it shut. I backed the screw out and it was like a fire hydrant through that small screw-hole, blasting a straight line of water across the narrow mud-room into the opposing wall. Unlike when the screw was still plugging the hole, that was a LOT of water in a short time. I was able to get the screw back into the hole in the pipe and get to the water shut-off within 2 to 3 minutes and man that was a lot of water.
Then you have to hope the shut off still works. I shut mine off for working on a bathroom remodel. Went to turn it back on, it unscrewed like it should be on, but the valve internally stayed closed.🤦🏻♂️WTF. Yup, plumber, new valve.
Shitty thing is I assumed he would cut and sweat in a new deal. Nope, fucking shark bite fittings. I could have done that. For fuck sake.
@a4eaudio said:
I drilled through a water pipe two weeks ago and had the emergency plumber come out. I was talking to him about some of the other things I have to get fixed in my house and he commented that the plumbers get paid more than the electricians despite there being more risk for the electricians.
Plumbers get to install water heaters and cast iron bathtubs.
Like I said - Plumbing is a vertical market opportunity.
You hire 2 men and a truck as subcontractors to deliver and remove the cast iron tub and charge the client.
Water heaters are cake to replace most of the time.
You need so many tools/equipment as a plumber that you open a tool rental business to support the plumbing business and write off all the tool costs as rental fees and never turn a profit while the tool rental place keeps turning-over equipment inventory at a maintenance-loss and everything (employees included) is written off as an expense while driving nice vehicles and just managing the local labor from the vocational schools and high school drop outs.
It's all about management of time, labor and the books . . . and supervision.
My friend is a retired plumber. Despite being retired he works everyday. I asked him why and he said he likes to help his friends out. So I asked how many friends does he help out, he said he's got 6,000 contacts in his phone.
Unknown to us, we had a burst water pipe under the aggregate in our back yard: just a small crack in a copper pipe, but it quadrupled our water bill for one quarter and cracked the aggregate. We only noticed it when we heard a hissing noise and saw some water trickling from one of the cracks.
The crack in the pipe had been caused by blockages along a drainage pipe connection which had been blocked by cement residue when the aggregate was laid, so that had to be fixed, too.
Repair bill: A$6,000!
There's a general shortage of skilled trades here, in part due to a stigma which somehow got attached to technical and trade schools in the 1970s and 80s, with consequent lack of funding. The apprenticeship system was also a problem, with widespread exploitation and bullying, which rather put young hopefuls off.
Had the main to out house spring a leak. One of those where the water bill kept going up, was like wtf is going on.
Once I figured out where it was happening, went to shut off the main, the whole manhole was totally full of water! Digging a hole in waterlogged dirt is a fucking horrible job. Turns out somebody attempted a repair previously and didn't do it properly. I did.
That saved a few thousand dollars.
Copper from the water main to the house, and almost all are copper in the house, with a few pex, and even rarer pvc. Wells are generally poly to the house.
My house had 1" lead pipe from the main under the street to the meter in the basement. Pretty standard for houses build in the 1960's around here. We developed a wet soggy sink hole in the front yard (leak) so now it's 1" copper.
Lead coming into the house. Shouldn't be an issue unless they pull some crap like Flint. I have a big filter cartridge before the drinking water faucet anyway that I replace roughly once a year.
I redid the whole house in copper since it has a looong track record of getting at least 20-30yr without leaks.
Pex was just as expensive factoring in all the manifolds. And I refuse to do a joint with that stuff in the wall without access to it. I've heard plenty about those leaking.
Pex is perfectly fine when crimped. Can be fine with high quality shark bite connections properly terminated. Where I see failures is cheap components or bad craftsmanship. I think it falls inline with most "new" technology, we have to get past the learning curve.
Comments
A lot of the newest machines have so much idiot proofing built in they are almost hard to crash. A.I. lenses, load detection, and auto touch off take a lot of skill out of the job.
Be all you can be - become a plumber.
It makes this hobby more affordable and you can have all the round-over and port making materials for free . . .
Production machining on CNC machines takes some skill but it isn't rocket science. I used to maintain an automated CNC complex and it didn't pay all that well in my opinion. That said I just found a 1989 pay stub that indicated I was paid the equivalent of $32.54/hr. No wonder I could afford $1600 worth of ribbon drivers.
Ron
I've worked with every trade under the sun and if I hadn't chose to go get my BSEE I would have definitely went into the electrical trade. I have lots of friends who are electricians. Some industrial, some comercial, some residential. They all make really good money and they don't have bad knees, backs, or drink excessively, etc. Can't say that about some other trades.
I drilled through a water pipe two weeks ago and had the emergency plumber come out. I was talking to him about some of the other things I have to get fixed in my house and he commented that the plumbers get paid more than the electricians despite there being more risk for the electricians.
Ah no, being a plumber is not fun. Concrete patching is tomorrow.
It's not just a job - its an adventure.
A vertical market adventure at that . . .
Plumbers... never bite your finger nails lol!
Always know where your main water supply shut off valve and pump breaker are.
InDIYana Event Website
Luckily for me, when we moved in I made sure to know where the water shut-off was. I drilled through the pipe around midnight on a Sunday. I thought I could hear the water spraying a little within the wall. I wasn't 100% sure I had gone through a water pipe, although I was 90% sure. It turns out the screw went right through the pipe, so was still mostly plugging it shut. I backed the screw out and it was like a fire hydrant through that small screw-hole, blasting a straight line of water across the narrow mud-room into the opposing wall. Unlike when the screw was still plugging the hole, that was a LOT of water in a short time. I was able to get the screw back into the hole in the pipe and get to the water shut-off within 2 to 3 minutes and man that was a lot of water.
Then you have to hope the shut off still works. I shut mine off for working on a bathroom remodel. Went to turn it back on, it unscrewed like it should be on, but the valve internally stayed closed.🤦🏻♂️WTF. Yup, plumber, new valve.
Shitty thing is I assumed he would cut and sweat in a new deal. Nope, fucking shark bite fittings. I could have done that. For fuck sake.
And shit rolls down hill.
Plumbers get to install water heaters and cast iron bathtubs.
Like I said - Plumbing is a vertical market opportunity.
You hire 2 men and a truck as subcontractors to deliver and remove the cast iron tub and charge the client.
Water heaters are cake to replace most of the time.
You need so many tools/equipment as a plumber that you open a tool rental business to support the plumbing business and write off all the tool costs as rental fees and never turn a profit while the tool rental place keeps turning-over equipment inventory at a maintenance-loss and everything (employees included) is written off as an expense while driving nice vehicles and just managing the local labor from the vocational schools and high school drop outs.
It's all about management of time, labor and the books . . . and supervision.
My friend is a retired plumber. Despite being retired he works everyday. I asked him why and he said he likes to help his friends out. So I asked how many friends does he help out, he said he's got 6,000 contacts in his phone.
Unknown to us, we had a burst water pipe under the aggregate in our back yard: just a small crack in a copper pipe, but it quadrupled our water bill for one quarter and cracked the aggregate. We only noticed it when we heard a hissing noise and saw some water trickling from one of the cracks.
The crack in the pipe had been caused by blockages along a drainage pipe connection which had been blocked by cement residue when the aggregate was laid, so that had to be fixed, too.
Repair bill: A$6,000!
There's a general shortage of skilled trades here, in part due to a stigma which somehow got attached to technical and trade schools in the 1970s and 80s, with consequent lack of funding. The apprenticeship system was also a problem, with widespread exploitation and bullying, which rather put young hopefuls off.
Geoff
Had the main to out house spring a leak. One of those where the water bill kept going up, was like wtf is going on.
Once I figured out where it was happening, went to shut off the main, the whole manhole was totally full of water! Digging a hole in waterlogged dirt is a fucking horrible job. Turns out somebody attempted a repair previously and didn't do it properly. I did.
That saved a few thousand dollars.
Poly pipe down there? It's all copper up here.
Same here.
You guys don't use PEX or PVC? Or do you mean copper in ground only?
InDIYana Event Website
Copper from the water main to the house, and almost all are copper in the house, with a few pex, and even rarer pvc. Wells are generally poly to the house.
My house had 1" lead pipe from the main under the street to the meter in the basement. Pretty standard for houses build in the 1960's around here. We developed a wet soggy sink hole in the front yard (leak) so now it's 1" copper.
Copper from main through inside shutoff, from there copper to water heater and then it branches out using Pex to feed rest of house.
Frost gets pretty deep here.
Mains are a minimum of 5' here.
5 foot mains!?!?!?
Depth not diameter
I have plastic from the well.
InDIYana Event Website
Lead coming into the house. Shouldn't be an issue unless they pull some crap like Flint. I have a big filter cartridge before the drinking water faucet anyway that I replace roughly once a year.
I redid the whole house in copper since it has a looong track record of getting at least 20-30yr without leaks.
Pex was just as expensive factoring in all the manifolds. And I refuse to do a joint with that stuff in the wall without access to it. I've heard plenty about those leaking.
My house has galvanized, copper, and plastic plumbing. I use whatever I have to.
InDIYana Event Website
Pex is perfectly fine when crimped. Can be fine with high quality shark bite connections properly terminated. Where I see failures is cheap components or bad craftsmanship. I think it falls inline with most "new" technology, we have to get past the learning curve.