Thanks for the input everyone. The Sonarworks SoundID looks to be the best bang for buck.
My general approach to speaker building is to measure the drivers in cabinet, and check the distortion profile and off-axis response; then start making compromises... I'm all ears if anyone has any input on how to avert compromises altogether.
Sonarworks' 2024 SoundID Reference microphone is based on a MEMS (Micro Electro Mechanical System) microphone.
The particular MEMS model has a lower maximum SPL (124dB vs 128dB) and lower SNR (65dB vs 70dB)
than the previous electret condenser based microphones.
This change makes no difference from a frequency response measurement of speakers which is the intended use according to Sonarworks. However, it makes it even less accurate than the original Xref20 (2015) and SoundID (2021) model for measuring harmonic/IMD of your speakers.
@kenrhodes said:
...
should be here this Thursday. I hope that the ECM Pro is a good performer.
If you want me to create a calibration file for you (if needed) and compare the distortion capabilities to the Earthworks I can. I'm curious about the ECM Pro and would put the results on my website.
If you want me to create a calibration file for you (if needed) and compare the distortion capabilities to the Earthworks I can. I'm curious about the ECM Pro and would put the results on my website.
I would REALLY appreciate it.
For $60 I have 2 microphones if the pro works well I might make a microphone array of 3 microphones so that one measurement would be on axis 15 degree vertical and horizontal. Like a big version of the mini dsp UMA-16 v2 USB mic array. I'm also considering making a rotary table with some extra stepper motors I have lying around. If the pro doesn't add vale over the $20 microphone I'll just stick with those.
Lofty dreams... we'll see where this goes. I really just want to make measuring faster as no one in my household seems to like the process.
REW Pro and multiple mics make polar speaker measurements and system calibration/confirmation go much faster. Only downside is then you find yourself needing an SPL calibrator too, in order to have the mics reading consistently.
An SPL calibrator is the audio equivalent of an electrical voltmeter- eg. To know that your amp output’s precise voltage output Eg. 2.83V…
When designing speakers it’s not all that important if you accidentally measure at 80dB instead of 83dB, or 85dB…, as long as you don’t adjust the volume knob.
But but it is advantageous to when measuring one driver against another what the actual SPL is.
An SPL calibrator costs less that $100 these days and are a great addition to any toolkit; I wish I had purchased one earlier. Some of my earlier SPL estimates are off by about 2dB.
With multiple microphones one can calibrate one mic against another known reference using a substitution technique- measure a driver with one mic, then measure it again with another mic, and then “divide” one measurement by the other to get the difference- then you can use this as your “calibration file”.
I agree with @dcibel ; the omni1 is a fine mic at a nice price: Here it is compared to my M23 when measuring a tweeter- up to 20KHz they are very similar!
If the ECM Pro is as close to the M23; that will be a great find for DIYers.
ECM Pro's intended purpose is for room measurements, it's tiny capsule is more omnidirectional than your average 1/4" measurement mic, which isn't an important feature for loudspeaker design use. I would be very surprised if it's microscopic electret capsule performed well enough for distortion use. For frequency response, it advertises "ruler flat to 30kHz" however doesn't have a real accuracy spec so I am interested as well to see how well it holds up to that claim. For the price tag I will remain skeptical, and hopefully pleasantly surprised.
For something a little different you could turn to MNPCTech out of Minnesota - they used to be big on computer modding back in the day, and while they still do that, they also CNC aluminum feet for audio purposes at 'somewhat' reasonable prices. Anyway, they have what they call Modder's Mesh. Both hexagonal and round. Round shown below.
FWIW, Dollar General has the same bowls linked above (or something similar) for about a dollar.
I also look at the short rounded-square glass bowls/vases as chamber thoughts. They are approximately 3/16-1/4" thick. They are deep enough to allow magnets of good size. The side walls are not straight, so no direct reflections. At the Mouth of the bowl, the hole is smaller than the shoulders behind it too. Might have to be careful in deadening the material resonance, but other than that looks of a solid option.
Hmm, wee have just been discussing these qualities in another forum:
From SEAS marketing:
The use of titanium voice coil formers enhances force transfer and enables low mechanical damping, resulting in remarkably clean, transient sound reproduction.
But Chahly - Stahkist don't want speakers that look good, Stahkist wants speakers that sound good!
Comments
Thanks for the input everyone. The Sonarworks SoundID looks to be the best bang for buck.
I'm all ears if anyone has any input on how to avert compromises altogether.
My general approach to speaker building is to measure the drivers in cabinet, and check the distortion profile and off-axis response; then start making compromises...
Ken,
Sonarworks' 2024 SoundID Reference microphone is based on a MEMS (Micro Electro Mechanical System) microphone.
The particular MEMS model has a lower maximum SPL (124dB vs 128dB) and lower SNR (65dB vs 70dB)
than the previous electret condenser based microphones.
This change makes no difference from a frequency response measurement of speakers which is the intended use according to Sonarworks. However, it makes it even less accurate than the original Xref20 (2015) and SoundID (2021) model for measuring harmonic/IMD of your speakers.
Hexagonal Perforated Speaker Grills -->
https://www.ebay.com/itm/132585985632?_trkparms=amclksrc=ITM&aid=1110018&algo=HOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS&ao=1&asc=264183&meid=c55f84a3fc554ac085265de4ce29df9d&pid=101196&rk=5&rkt=12&sd=130969206682&itm=132585985632&pmt=1&noa=0&pg=2332490&algv=CompVIDesktopATF2V6&_trksid=p2332490.c101196.m2219&itmprp=cksum:132585985632c55f84a3fc554ac085265de4ce29df9d|enc:AQAJAAAA8Lx1mZQ2L9jLv%2BUPTFTna8XcGfl2wNJcn022gtZb5sDio0HRPGXX5A6QfsDZHA%2FP%2BImLFfzHG9dxbXFF59wiNU0P%2BtQ2S6Rh6UNQXp2t8hjGu3UBm2SkEIzTkZZQY43we48i6lU%2Ba44b0Ky8yCaLXof5vwgpO19VDSbY6ZeaEDU5Q2wv7KTYODoKKrj4y7HDA7WDuYDszxUJBkAEztvdSM1hd1IUDJOcIwua%2BzS4%2BlcovuGjIUz5Hb%2FmweVRcQtinYWSLSNGcHyT4cpkQJ6RBS6FRsp8ixDHHLC1KE8Gf8ty1Cm0%2FCOd4WAYNxBkVUzEZA%3D%3D|ampid:PL_CLK|clp:2332490&epid=18018153285&itmmeta=01JJ3926ADF2F8TV8FBKYX0MS8
Eggie likey.
That's pretty cool stuff and since is aluminum probably pretty easy to work.
Bought 2 microphones:
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ECMPro--behringer-ecm-pro-measurement-microphone?_queryID=257976a2bb1888fd08ab9c073ff53da9&_index=production_products
and:
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ECM8000--behringer-ecm8000-measurement-condenser-microphone
should be here this Thursday. I hope that the ECM Pro is a good performer.
If you want me to create a calibration file for you (if needed) and compare the distortion capabilities to the Earthworks I can. I'm curious about the ECM Pro and would put the results on my website.
Why two?
. . . one for each speaker . . .
I would REALLY appreciate it.
For $60 I have 2 microphones if the pro works well I might make a microphone array of 3 microphones so that one measurement would be on axis 15 degree vertical and horizontal. Like a big version of the mini dsp UMA-16 v2 USB mic array. I'm also considering making a rotary table with some extra stepper motors I have lying around. If the pro doesn't add vale over the $20 microphone I'll just stick with those.
Lofty dreams... we'll see where this goes. I really just want to make measuring faster as no one in my household seems to like the process.
REW Pro and multiple mics make polar speaker measurements and system calibration/confirmation go much faster. Only downside is then you find yourself needing an SPL calibrator too, in order to have the mics reading consistently.
An SPL calibrator is the audio equivalent of an electrical voltmeter- eg. To know that your amp output’s precise voltage output Eg. 2.83V…
When designing speakers it’s not all that important if you accidentally measure at 80dB instead of 83dB, or 85dB…, as long as you don’t adjust the volume knob.
But but it is advantageous to when measuring one driver against another what the actual SPL is.
An SPL calibrator costs less that $100 these days and are a great addition to any toolkit; I wish I had purchased one earlier. Some of my earlier SPL estimates are off by about 2dB.
With multiple microphones one can calibrate one mic against another known reference using a substitution technique- measure a driver with one mic, then measure it again with another mic, and then “divide” one measurement by the other to get the difference- then you can use this as your “calibration file”.
I agree with @dcibel ; the omni1 is a fine mic at a nice price: Here it is compared to my M23 when measuring a tweeter- up to 20KHz they are very similar!
If the ECM Pro is as close to the M23; that will be a great find for DIYers.
ECM Pro's intended purpose is for room measurements, it's tiny capsule is more omnidirectional than your average 1/4" measurement mic, which isn't an important feature for loudspeaker design use. I would be very surprised if it's microscopic electret capsule performed well enough for distortion use. For frequency response, it advertises "ruler flat to 30kHz" however doesn't have a real accuracy spec so I am interested as well to see how well it holds up to that claim. For the price tag I will remain skeptical, and hopefully pleasantly surprised.
If it goes ruler flat to 18kHz without a calibration file, that would be quite impressive in itself.
.
There is a company in Grand Rapids that sells various perforated aluminum sheets like that one. Link:
https://www.customcargrills.com/Hexagon-Grill-Mesh.asp
I used the XXL hexagonal style in my nude open baffle projects.
EDIT: Turn out the ebay item is from the same seller. You can buy directly from the company using the link above.
For something a little different you could turn to MNPCTech out of Minnesota - they used to be big on computer modding back in the day, and while they still do that, they also CNC aluminum feet for audio purposes at 'somewhat' reasonable prices. Anyway, they have what they call Modder's Mesh. Both hexagonal and round. Round shown below.
https://www.mnpctech.com/products/round-modders-mesh?_pos=3&_sid=9a613ed77&_ss=r
Mid range speaker enclosure/back-cup for 3 ~ 4" drivers?
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mainstays-BPA-Free-10oz-0-3L-Small-Black-Salsa-Serving-Dish/2476252341
4" ID, 4.75" OD, 2" internal depth and has a flange for drilling screw holes - $0.97 ea.
Yeah, i've thought of using those too.
InDIYana Event Website
Mmmmm....salsa.
Why not? I've heard midrange described as buttery or chocolatey.
Spicy midrange👍🏻
FWIW, Dollar General has the same bowls linked above (or something similar) for about a dollar.
I also look at the short rounded-square glass bowls/vases as chamber thoughts. They are approximately 3/16-1/4" thick. They are deep enough to allow magnets of good size. The side walls are not straight, so no direct reflections. At the Mouth of the bowl, the hole is smaller than the shoulders behind it too. Might have to be careful in deadening the material resonance, but other than that looks of a solid option.
InDIYana Event Website
Pots for plants come in a variety of sizes. I found some fiberglass ones that worked well.
Deadening/damping is a pre-requisite prior to installing and measuring:
Big up to @Steve_Lee , whom, with his support, enabled this directivity study:
https://www.htguide.com/forum/forum/primetime-a-v/mission-possible-diy/driver-testing-discussion/951210-a-study-on-directivity-cones-domes-large-and-small-small-and-large-baffles?p=951243#post951243
https://audioxpress.com/news/seas-launches-toy-diy-kit-with-metamodal-tpcd-coaxial-driver
Interesting
Hmm, wee have just been discussing these qualities in another forum:
From SEAS marketing:
The use of titanium voice coil formers enhances force transfer and enables low mechanical damping, resulting in remarkably clean, transient sound reproduction.
C16NX001/X Metamodal TPCD = $569
YIKES!
Run away!
You don't buy a coax for its measurements. This appears to have less smoothing than many other manufacturers' graphs.
I prefer those with imbedded tweeter horns; ie beyma's, and Celestions (with common motor design). Although the Celestion is a bit more to deal with.
https://www.beyma.com/speakers/Fichas_Tecnicas/beyma-altavoces-hoja-tecnica-coaxial-5CX200NdN.pdf
That Beyma, 5" driver with 19mm p-p !!!😳