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WG 2-way design thread.

D1PP1ND1PP1N
in DIY
There seems to be some interest in this so I figured I would post it up. I've had some drivers and veneer on the back burner for a few years and decided to do something with them. I got them all measured and Craig got me squared away with the files and a base x-over to start from. I don't have exact values on hand for this but ordered a bunch to test this week. It's going to be close to see if I can get something I really like built in time. I'll bring them to indiy either way but it may not be a final product. They are completely finished and nice looking from that aspect.

The first option sounded pretty good there is a little off-ness in the lower mids i need to figure it. The below info is an option I want to try. I wanted to give the woofer a little less slope and take a touch off the tweeter db wise. The phase still looks really good. IT's going to be a balancing act with really sharp roll offs on both drivers so you dont hear an abrupt transition. I really really love the sound of the tweeter in this guide. Im listening to demos and hear alot of cool stuff. The woofer RS270P-4 is as little quirky, I may need to change to a 3" port from a 2" port or just seal it for the time being.

As always question, comment, critique as you see fit. I don't offend easily.

First picture is the raw measurements and measurements with the filter in place.



Summed response with rev null


Summed response


Tweeter circuit (not targeting 2 order just didn't change it)

Woofer circuit   (not targeting 2 order just didn't change it)



JasonPkennykkonfyousedtajanes

Comments

  • JasonPJasonP
    That response looks damn good. Hopefully you are pretty close to the end result.

    So I see you mentioned the RS270P-4, but what is the tweeter. I'll hazard a guess: RS28A in the SEOS guide?
    = Howard Stark: "This is the key to the future. I'm limited by the technology of my time, but one day you'll figure this out."
  • JasonPJasonP
    Maybe you need to increase the inductor on the woofer a bit, +0.25mh or so, maybe that would take out that 2db rise from 300 to 800. That could be audible?
    = Howard Stark: "This is the key to the future. I'm limited by the technology of my time, but one day you'll figure this out."
  • D1PP1ND1PP1N
    Its rs28a in seos wg. Sorry I havent listened to this model yet. I ordered the parts for both xovers. The base had a 2.0 mh on the woofer which squashed that peak Jason mentioned and it rolled off a little harder, phase was near perfect overlay and tbe tweeter was pretty much flat all tbe way. I will post the base x-over model Craig laid out. There was a spanish song in one of the diy demo tracks that had alot of 800-1400 hz content that i didnt like tbe sound off. Most everything else sounded pretty good. I always like a few db of low end so thats why i want to try the above xover. 
  • D1PP1ND1PP1N
    I also need to ditch the 24g-28g test leads im using i think its causing problems. When i gave them the berries the woofer distorted way before it should have. 
    Nicholas_23JasonP
  • D1PP1ND1PP1N
    This 270p doesnt seem to dig as deep as one would expect a 10" too. Cabinet volume is approx 32 liters with a 2" port x 5.6" long its tuned to 33hz. F3,F6,F10 is 37, 32, 27 hz. 

    The drum tracks sound really good. I dont feel a ton of air coming out of the port or any chuffing yet or maybe i just used to aluminum cone drivers. This is by far the most challenging design i've had to work with. Its doubtful ill have a "final" version by this weekend. I will probably need to play with crossover points a little more. 
  • dynamodynamo
    I found it wouldn’t dig as deep as initially thought either when I modeled mine. However, don’t remember size/tuning specifics anymore, but I do recall it taking at least 75watts to reach xmax which I liked a lot.  
  • D1PP1ND1PP1N
    Thx, yeh wbcd suggested 30 liters. It can handle power tho. I guess i could try sealing the port with a 2" plumbing end stop. 
  • D1PP1ND1PP1N
    Lol, so break in your woofers! They are coming to life a little more now. 
  • D1PP1ND1PP1N
    @jhollander ; looks like you nailed it on 8-10kdip on the model above. I can tilt it back up a little. Beyond 10k might be a problem then but i can measure to verify. Thanks!
  • jhollanderjhollander
    Mike I think a little 15K peak is fine on axis.  This really comes down to how you like your speakers.  I like detail so a 15K peak is OK if the "Ss" and snare drums/ brush on drums sound natural.  I've used a contour filter to lift the RS28A in a few designs.
     John H, btw forum has decided I don't get emails
  • trawtraw

    Related-ish question on waveguides - often graphs for waveguides (like augerpro) show a downtrending response when apply to a tweet. Overheard Chuck at Indy talking about how silkie's tend to have blip or upward moment in the upper range, such that waveguide 'can' balance out. Happily experienced that myself with seas 27tdfc in visaton waveguide --- but to the core question, is the lower range boosted/reinforced or top end rolled off with waveguiding? I'm tending to believe the former given some measurements took for my SDC25 project. Did proto build using the woofer and tweet, but now seems need to pad it a little more while using a lower xover and having tweet in waveguide.

  • TRK621TRK621

    A bit of both, but it mostly boosts the lower end. Zaph provided a comprehensive answer way back when.

    silverD6thplanet
  • 6thplanet6thplanet

    Yup, mainly boosts the low end, but should also be providing pattern control. Kinda the reason to use one for mating with larger mid-bass/woofers.

  • DrewsBrewsDrewsBrews
    edited June 13

    A little of both IMO. The directivity control acts like a lense focusing the lower frequency output, thus boosting it at the listening position. But, from what I gather researching online, interactions with the throat can cause cancelations in the upper register, and thus reduced output up there, unless extra attention is paid to the design. Often you will see the throat covering part or all of the surround, probably in an effort to shade some of the energy that causes the cancelation.

  • TRK621TRK621

    A really good WG should widen the pattern up high, which implies lower SPL on-axis, because it's spreading the same acoustical energy over a wider angle. The exact opposite of what happens at the bottom, really. I don't have a good example off the top of my head, but I'll bet that Purifi's tweeter-development paper & WG docs from Fluid or HifiCompass would show this.

    If it's on Zaph's page, I should reread the whole thing instead of just finding the link!

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