To save on inductors I’m looking at a cascading filter. I’m am also debating if I want a high pass or just use the enclosure. Electrically it would look like a .5 mid with a .5 woofer. All in my head. This maybe impractical once I start modeling.
Cascading filters are definitely allowed. I figured you were looking at using box rolloff. I guess if it complies with the xover points, it is still 12dB slopes.
Quick question for Ben... is having two piece enclosures allowed if their sum net total volume is at or below the 1.5 ft^3 limit. I'm only asking because it is much easier to fit 2 bass bins and 2 top boxes in a sedan like I have. I don't believe there would be any sonic advantages. Just easier to load/unload/fit in a typical sized car.
Assuming 'mid' must be in some passband, like no 2 way with natural F3 of 50-70hz then just adding a sub at 100 or lower hz - which would seem the easiest route with 60-150*16 . Or not using low reaching horn loaded driver or dipole (heil or other amt) that would be like hey, 1khz * 16 etc - thus some stop band, acoustic or electrical, before 10k?
Of course have to test the boundaries.... know the spirit is to balance a mid/mid-pair to stretch 4 octaves where assisted on each side - err, passband'ed naturally or electrically.
Maybe Nick's array will be ready, guessing long term means within a year heheh
@traw said:
Assuming 'mid' must be in some passband, like no 2 way with natural F3 of 50-70hz then just adding a sub at 100 or lower hz - which would seem the easiest route with 60-150*16 . Or not using low reaching horn loaded driver or dipole (heil or other amt) that would be like hey, 1khz * 16 etc - thus some stop band, acoustic or electrical, before 10k?
Of course have to test the boundaries.... know the spirit is to balance a mid/mid-pair to stretch 4 octaves where assisted on each side - err, passband'ed naturally or electrically.
Maybe Nick's array will be ready, guessing long term means within a year heheh
Sounds like using natural rolloff is ok? But the themes are usually passive only. Low passing that low would bring it's own challenges. (big values, and the resonance peaks wreaking havoc)
If the natural rolloff gets the xover point accomplished as described, it is -12sB/Oct. The impedance however could be super low without a filter in place.
Yes, LP very low causes other issues for sure.
My Indy 2026 theme build keeps morphing but each change makes them even better I hope. I swore I wouldn't buy any new drivers for this... that's out the perverbial window LOL! I'm using this theme as an excuse to finally play with an AMT. My mid xo point is high enough that the cheap Dayton mini AMT should work splendedly.
I'm preparing a "proof of concept" prototype test for my Indy 2026 theme. Tweeter held in place with masking tape and midrange modified with cardboard diffusers. Should be a fun project.
I've got a cool midrange I picked up from JR years ago. I just need to measure it to see if it will go low enough. Kind of weird thing to be excited about, F3 of 35Hz with two speakers that fit in checked luggage.
4-way=0 budget imho.
Even if going 3 way coveing 4 octives would be really hard without a very controlled mid.
I am likely going to be using some SB mids that look like they are up to the task but covering 4 octives will still increase the order and cost of the crosssover. Even with a more premuim driver I will still be at its limits to play clean for a room that large.
Even those of us with a good stash will probably have over $300 into the build and some will be WAY over $300.
Please don't let that discourage anyone though as this is for pure bragging rights.
Thinking about WMTMW using epic7 quads that just sit in basement, have one pair faitalpro FE35's (4inch) then maybe the morel mdt29 door prize from SDC25, or small little dayton tweets have nd28 and the similar size format titanium, or cheap amt. Leaning toward 250/4000 to maybe 300/4800. Probably not make the box until sometime before holiday season/cold.
MTM as afraid single 4 inch not give enough fullness at 250 woof-mid, low Sd?. Also contemplated 5" FaitalPro, like 5FE120 as TMWW where would have to try 38-40tall x 8.5-9 wide x 8.5-9 deep, whatever to stay with 1.5cuft. But prefer to use up what have and easier to comfortably reach 4k with the 4's. Prob like a 30" tall stand mount.
Series-ing up 8ohm-ers into 16ohm create problems? 3db loss? Giant cap for 16ohm mid high pass to get 250-300hz... things to learn.
You would not lose 3dB by series-ing up two 8 ohm drivers into 16 ohms. You would lose 3dB electrically, but gain 3dB acoustically. Net gain/loss in SPL sensitivity would be zero.
After looking again at my driver collection I just can't justify purchasing more drivers (ie the Dayton AMT's). Gonna go with what I already have, some nice 19 mm Vifa/Tymphany NE tweeters. Will they push this project over the cliff? Probably not but still fun.
My current thought is to MTM up some small drivers to a small form factor tweeter. That way I could explore higher crossover points. I've got 4x of the little TEBM35C10s left, but they are low sensitivity and already 4ohm. I also picked up 4x PC83s from the mountain of them at the SDC garage sale.
Or I could try the high crossover (as suggested by some of you guys) with my GRS 8PT coaxial experiment. Pair with the PA200s I have, ported. Squeezing the 8PT into a small enough chamber so the PA200 has enough breathing room in 1.5cf total... Might be an excuse for some aperiodic shenanigans.
The TEBM35C10s are back in stock at PE. (1700+) Think I'll order a batch before they disappear again.
Working on a good project name. Think I'll call mine "The FourMidAble Mid-Splitables" "Mid-Splitable" for short.
Comments
To save on inductors I’m looking at a cascading filter. I’m am also debating if I want a high pass or just use the enclosure. Electrically it would look like a .5 mid with a .5 woofer. All in my head. This maybe impractical once I start modeling.
Cascading filters are definitely allowed. I figured you were looking at using box rolloff. I guess if it complies with the xover points, it is still 12dB slopes.
InDIYana Event Website
John, just use any poly cap with this parallel 0.01 ohm resistor and call it an LR 0.01 slope.
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/stackpole-electronics-inc/MR5FT10L0/1650262
Aw man this is gonn' be wild! juices flowin!
Quick question for Ben... is having two piece enclosures allowed if their sum net total volume is at or below the 1.5 ft^3 limit. I'm only asking because it is much easier to fit 2 bass bins and 2 top boxes in a sedan like I have. I don't believe there would be any sonic advantages. Just easier to load/unload/fit in a typical sized car.
Sure, I would likely do the same.
InDIYana Event Website
Assuming 'mid' must be in some passband, like no 2 way with natural F3 of 50-70hz then just adding a sub at 100 or lower hz - which would seem the easiest route with 60-150*16 . Or not using low reaching horn loaded driver or dipole (heil or other amt) that would be like hey, 1khz * 16 etc - thus some stop band, acoustic or electrical, before 10k?
Of course have to test the boundaries.... know the spirit is to balance a mid/mid-pair to stretch 4 octaves where assisted on each side - err, passband'ed naturally or electrically.
Maybe Nick's array will be ready, guessing long term means within a year heheh
Thanks for the quick reply Ben!
No problem! This heat is awful, haven't done much outside for about a week now.
InDIYana Event Website
Sounds like using natural rolloff is ok? But the themes are usually passive only. Low passing that low would bring it's own challenges. (big values, and the resonance peaks wreaking havoc)
If the natural rolloff gets the xover point accomplished as described, it is -12sB/Oct. The impedance however could be super low without a filter in place.
Yes, LP very low causes other issues for sure.
InDIYana Event Website
My Indy 2026 theme build keeps morphing but each change makes them even better I hope. I swore I wouldn't buy any new drivers for this... that's out the perverbial window LOL! I'm using this theme as an excuse to finally play with an AMT. My mid xo point is high enough that the cheap Dayton mini AMT should work splendedly.
I'm preparing a "proof of concept" prototype test for my Indy 2026 theme. Tweeter held in place with masking tape and midrange modified with cardboard diffusers. Should be a fun project.
...budget?
I've got a cool midrange I picked up from JR years ago. I just need to measure it to see if it will go low enough. Kind of weird thing to be excited about, F3 of 35Hz with two speakers that fit in checked luggage.
4-way=0 budget imho.
Even if going 3 way coveing 4 octives would be really hard without a very controlled mid.
I am likely going to be using some SB mids that look like they are up to the task but covering 4 octives will still increase the order and cost of the crosssover. Even with a more premuim driver I will still be at its limits to play clean for a room that large.
Even those of us with a good stash will probably have over $300 into the build and some will be WAY over $300.
Please don't let that discourage anyone though as this is for pure bragging rights.
Thinking about WMTMW using epic7 quads that just sit in basement, have one pair faitalpro FE35's (4inch) then maybe the morel mdt29 door prize from SDC25, or small little dayton tweets have nd28 and the similar size format titanium, or cheap amt. Leaning toward 250/4000 to maybe 300/4800. Probably not make the box until sometime before holiday season/cold.
MTM as afraid single 4 inch not give enough fullness at 250 woof-mid, low Sd?. Also contemplated 5" FaitalPro, like 5FE120 as TMWW where would have to try 38-40tall x 8.5-9 wide x 8.5-9 deep, whatever to stay with 1.5cuft. But prefer to use up what have and easier to comfortably reach 4k with the 4's. Prob like a 30" tall stand mount.
Series-ing up 8ohm-ers into 16ohm create problems? 3db loss? Giant cap for 16ohm mid high pass to get 250-300hz... things to learn.
You would not lose 3dB by series-ing up two 8 ohm drivers into 16 ohms. You would lose 3dB electrically, but gain 3dB acoustically. Net gain/loss in SPL sensitivity would be zero.
After looking again at my driver collection I just can't justify purchasing more drivers (ie the Dayton AMT's). Gonna go with what I already have, some nice 19 mm Vifa/Tymphany NE tweeters. Will they push this project over the cliff? Probably not but still fun.
A bit of progress made.
My current thought is to MTM up some small drivers to a small form factor tweeter. That way I could explore higher crossover points. I've got 4x of the little TEBM35C10s left, but they are low sensitivity and already 4ohm. I also picked up 4x PC83s from the mountain of them at the SDC garage sale.
Or I could try the high crossover (as suggested by some of you guys) with my GRS 8PT coaxial experiment. Pair with the PA200s I have, ported. Squeezing the 8PT into a small enough chamber so the PA200 has enough breathing room in 1.5cf total... Might be an excuse for some aperiodic shenanigans.
The TEBM35C10s are back in stock at PE. (1700+) Think I'll order a batch before they disappear again.
Working on a good project name. Think I'll call mine "The FourMidAble Mid-Splitables" "Mid-Splitable" for short.
I think the TEBM65C20F would be a great option to consider as well. I have only used it once on a amo can speaker but was plesently suprised.
Continued here:
https://discourse.midwestaudio.club/t/indiyana-2026-and-theme-continued/50
InDIYana Event Website