@Wolf said:
If the cone is thin like some of their smaller units, or like the Jordan lineup, then I totally understand they don't want their thin cones molested.
I don't know, its Mms is about the same as a Dayton RS225.
The new Dayton MX subs are released. Look decent at first blush, but the relatively low Qms and the 5.5mH inductance on the 15" indicates they are not particularly high end. Given how expensive the RS subs have gotten, I don't blame Dayton for releasing these at the price point. It is unlikely that people will be happy with them in a home audio application, but the car audio guys will be able to hit some insane SPL with the $200 15". It is an affordable option if a guy wants to listen at 145db all day. Could also work in home as a ULF driver, I imagine.
I'm looking forward to seeing the Youtube guys beat the shit out of a few of them. Remember the Rockville K1? It had all the necessary ingredients on paper, and turned out to use some pretty shitty internals - especially the glue. Given Dayton has some weird hit or miss on quality... I think they lack a unified QC program.
The model on the MX drivers looks great until you include the enormous inductance. They're still usable, but not that exciting for HiFi people. They'll be popular with teenagers with their first cars I'm sure.
help a dummy understand... aside from the high inductance indicating that it might be using a primitive motor assembly, why does the high inductance signify that it's not a good hifi option?
@Jim85IROC said:
help a dummy understand... aside from the high inductance indicating that it might be using a primitive motor assembly, why does the high inductance signify that it's not a good hifi option?
All the same reasons a basic b motor isn't hifi in any other driver. Some people don't believe in distortion in bass though, so maybe you won't tell the difference between a high end sub and the cheap Dayton. Might be worth a listen, could save you a bundle
Hard to make sense of the MX15. Modeled without inductance model, looked pretty ok at 100L with 22Hz tuning. That's the light blue line. Then I applied basic inductance model, that's the dark blue line, yikes. I then traced the impedance and generated a more accurate semi-inductance model, that's the darker purple line.
Moving on using the semi-inductance model, I re-modeled the model to a larger 160L and 27Hz tuning. That's the black line. Removed the inductance model to see that model looks like, that's the light blue line.
Make what you will of it, this driver rolls off before 100Hz on it's own due to the self-inductance, but maybe that's a bonus feature
FWIW the RSS390HO is only $5 more right now, so if you don't need that extra few dB of output...
yes, it can do basic Le model, 2 point 1kHz and 10kHz model, and semi-inductance model. I had quite a time getting the semi-inductance model to characterize the curve well enough, I think it's because VituixCAD allows a maximum Ke of 1 sH, this driver is literally off the charts.
The values I landed on for the MX15 extended Z "semi-inductance" model are:
Le 8.51mH
Leb 1.5mH
Ke 1.0sH
Rss 50 Ohms
Even if I wanted this it wouldn't matter. The PE home page has been completely disfunctional on Firefox for Mac for at least the last 2-3 weeks. If I want to see an item I have to google it and go directly to the dedicated page.
@jr@mac said:
Yes, it is a largely miserable experience on Chrome for desktop and mobile, and Edge too.
I generally refrain from opining on website changes because either the bugs get fixed or I learn the quirks or otherwise get used to the new website in pretty short order. This last PE change was apparently really bad though because months later and it's still costing me a lot of extra time to get anything done on it.
I've been using the search bar on the home page. It's not perfect but beats the awful slider range function. Search for terms like 10 ohms, 1.5mh and 10uf and you'll generally find the part your looking for.
I had been doing the same thing - using the search to bypass those stupid sliders. But lately I can't get past the home screen using Chrome on my MacBook Air. Seems to work fine with Safari - which I never use.
I really wish they had rolled out a Beta and offered to let some of the PETT users test it out. I'm not sure how these things work in real life, so maybe whatever software package they had been using had reached end-of-life. Their new design is, at its core, pretty much the same as every other largish online retailer - their implementation is just total shit. Not sure how much more complaining can be done - unless Stahl is stopping here to read this forum, it is obvious PE is not overly concerned with the amount of disappointment. They shut down threads at PETT whenever anyone is critical of the website, so it is unlikely they will address the most common complaints.
@Tom_S said:
I had been doing the same thing - using the search to bypass those stupid sliders. But lately I can't get past the home screen using Chrome on my MacBook Air. Seems to work fine with Safari - which I never use.
This seems to be a bug with Mozilla default browsers on Mac. If I start Firefox in safe mode it works for a while.
I assume there's a similar procedure for Chrome. However, it sucks and it really isn't worth the hassle. There are literally no other web sites in existance where I've encountered this bug other than the PE home page.
Comments
The grill is definitely ugly - but it is nice to see Fountek adopting a better frame for their drivers.
I dislike the Accuton line for the same reason - great drivers, hideous grills.
If the cone is thin like some of their smaller units, or like the Jordan lineup, then I totally understand they don't want their thin cones molested.
InDIYana Event Website
Can a thin cone like that stay linear pushing 50Hz at 8mm x-max? Maybe it's formed with some internal tension somehow?
(Sorry - my grammar isn't quite up to par when I only get 3 hours of sleep.)
I don't know, its Mms is about the same as a Dayton RS225.
If soft parts are up to snuff, yes - the cone however fragile should be ok.
I feel like making a ton of guitar picks...
Not much of a challenge in that.
Depends on what you make them out of
Sehlin Sound Solutions
The new Dayton MX subs are released. Look decent at first blush, but the relatively low Qms and the 5.5mH inductance on the 15" indicates they are not particularly high end. Given how expensive the RS subs have gotten, I don't blame Dayton for releasing these at the price point. It is unlikely that people will be happy with them in a home audio application, but the car audio guys will be able to hit some insane SPL with the $200 15". It is an affordable option if a guy wants to listen at 145db all day. Could also work in home as a ULF driver, I imagine.
I'm looking forward to seeing the Youtube guys beat the shit out of a few of them. Remember the Rockville K1? It had all the necessary ingredients on paper, and turned out to use some pretty shitty internals - especially the glue. Given Dayton has some weird hit or miss on quality... I think they lack a unified QC program.
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-MX15-22-15-Max-X-High-Excursion-DVC-Subwoofer-2-Ohms-Per-Coil-295-168
Also, anyone else remember a few months ago when a "new" search yielded some kind of high output 10" subwoofer under the GRS brand?
The model on the MX drivers looks great until you include the enormous inductance. They're still usable, but not that exciting for HiFi people. They'll be popular with teenagers with their first cars I'm sure.
help a dummy understand... aside from the high inductance indicating that it might be using a primitive motor assembly, why does the high inductance signify that it's not a good hifi option?
Yep. Then it vanished form the PE site.
PE has a unified qc program...their customer base.
All the same reasons a basic b motor isn't hifi in any other driver. Some people don't believe in distortion in bass though, so maybe you won't tell the difference between a high end sub and the cheap Dayton. Might be worth a listen, could save you a bundle
Hard to make sense of the MX15. Modeled without inductance model, looked pretty ok at 100L with 22Hz tuning. That's the light blue line. Then I applied basic inductance model, that's the dark blue line, yikes. I then traced the impedance and generated a more accurate semi-inductance model, that's the darker purple line.
Moving on using the semi-inductance model, I re-modeled the model to a larger 160L and 27Hz tuning. That's the black line. Removed the inductance model to see that model looks like, that's the light blue line.
Make what you will of it, this driver rolls off before 100Hz on it's own due to the self-inductance, but maybe that's a bonus feature
FWIW the RSS390HO is only $5 more right now, so if you don't need that extra few dB of output...
What program are you using to model the self-inductance, VituixCAD?
yes, it can do basic Le model, 2 point 1kHz and 10kHz model, and semi-inductance model. I had quite a time getting the semi-inductance model to characterize the curve well enough, I think it's because VituixCAD allows a maximum Ke of 1 sH, this driver is literally off the charts.
The values I landed on for the MX15 extended Z "semi-inductance" model are:
Le 8.51mH
Leb 1.5mH
Ke 1.0sH
Rss 50 Ohms
Those response curves would work really well in a vehicle.
Finally some drivers up. Beston rt002a $30, Peerless TG9FD $13, Peerless 835025 HDS $29
Even if I wanted this it wouldn't matter. The PE home page has been completely disfunctional on Firefox for Mac for at least the last 2-3 weeks. If I want to see an item I have to google it and go directly to the dedicated page.
Yes, it is a largely miserable experience on Chrome for desktop and mobile, and Edge too.
I generally refrain from opining on website changes because either the bugs get fixed or I learn the quirks or otherwise get used to the new website in pretty short order. This last PE change was apparently really bad though because months later and it's still costing me a lot of extra time to get anything done on it.
I've been using the search bar on the home page. It's not perfect but beats the awful slider range function. Search for terms like 10 ohms, 1.5mh and 10uf and you'll generally find the part your looking for.
Ron
I had been doing the same thing - using the search to bypass those stupid sliders. But lately I can't get past the home screen using Chrome on my MacBook Air. Seems to work fine with Safari - which I never use.
I really wish they had rolled out a Beta and offered to let some of the PETT users test it out. I'm not sure how these things work in real life, so maybe whatever software package they had been using had reached end-of-life. Their new design is, at its core, pretty much the same as every other largish online retailer - their implementation is just total shit. Not sure how much more complaining can be done - unless Stahl is stopping here to read this forum, it is obvious PE is not overly concerned with the amount of disappointment. They shut down threads at PETT whenever anyone is critical of the website, so it is unlikely they will address the most common complaints.
This seems to be a bug with Mozilla default browsers on Mac. If I start Firefox in safe mode it works for a while.
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/diagnose-firefox-issues-using-troubleshoot-mode?redirectslug=troubleshoot-firefox-issues-using-safe-mode&redirectlocale=en-US
I assume there's a similar procedure for Chrome. However, it sucks and it really isn't worth the hassle. There are literally no other web sites in existance where I've encountered this bug other than the PE home page.
Hey guys.... you sound like a bunch of "teenage girls"
Had a teenage girl in the house for years - I don't talk (or type/text) nearly that fast.