Not to hero-worship, but that year Andrew Jones came to InDIYana, he said to me that his preferred solution is a passive crossover with great phase & summation, and then fix the rest with DSP.
The biggest argument I can see for passive is that you don't need any fancy cabling and only one amp channel per speaker. When I design and build something, if it has a decent passive crossover, it can be used anywhere.
A completely active speaker that has the amps and active crossover built in sort of meets that criteria, but might be trickier to implement in a surround system.
I think there are advantages to an active system - one of which might be to choose more suitable amps for low and high frequency sections and implementing filters to mitigate certain issues, like unloading of the woofer below tuning in a vented system.
Overall, I would tend to agree with Andrew Jones - especially now that the Topping D50 III is out with a 10 band parametric EQ and great overall performance as a dac/preamp for $229.
Keep an open mind, but don't let your brain fall out.
It depends on the market. The high end hifi/ audiophile world likes to mix and match to taste and thus like to buy passive systems.
In the professional, PA, automotive, general consumer world almost everything is active/DSP and has been for decades now. And transparent to the end user.
I purchased a second hand digital piano released about a decade ago and it had a custom ASIC for FIR and DSP. And it was a low end model! (~$3000)
It’s certainly cheaper for mass manufacturing and drives the competitive dollar further.
A quick update. As I suggested earlier, I finally got around to replacing my outdoor electronics with the Dayton KAB-2150 tested earlier in this thread. I am quite impressed. It's being powered by a 36V 320W IP67 power supply. Between the power supply, which I picked up on ebay, the amp board and the power switch, I am in for about $70. It sounds clean and powerful, just like the Aiyma A04 and A07 TPA3255 amps. A big step up from the Pyle marine radio I was using before. I'm also getting better distance and stability with the bluetooth connnection, probably due to the included bluetooth antenna that I stuck to an interior side wall of the enclosure. The amp board is going for $30 these days.
and 3 others.
Keep an open mind, but don't let your brain fall out.
@ScottS said:
A quick update. As I suggested earlier, I finally got around to replacing my outdoor electronics with the Dayton KAB-2150 tested earlier in this thread. I am quite impressed. It's being powered by a 36V 320W IP67 power supply. Between the power supply, which I picked up on ebay, the amp board and the power switch, I am in for about $70. It sounds clean and powerful, just like the Aiyma A04 and A07 TPA3255 amps. A big step up from the Pyle marine radio I was using before. I'm also getting better distance and stability with the bluetooth connnection, probably due to the included bluetooth antenna that I stuck to an interior side wall of the enclosure. The amp board is going for $30 these days.
Nice! Those 2150 boards are a good deal and thanks for testing. Where’d you pick up the enclosure?
I made it. Similar construction to the speakers. 1/2" Birch Ply. Two coats of Kilz3, two coats of white duratex, two coats of house paint. I mounted the power supply (36V supply pictured on page 1 about a third of the way down the page) to the top of the enclosure. Amp board is on the bottom side, along with a biwire speaker terminal cup and IEC connector for power. I bought the power switch on Amazon. The rear of the enclosure is sized to hang on the deck railing so it is secure, but fairly easy to lift off for the winter or to work on. The rear panel (facing the railing) is removable. Next time I have it apart, I'll take a picture or two of the inside.
Keep an open mind, but don't let your brain fall out.
Very cool. I'd like to have an outdoor speaker that doesn't sound like tinny junk. I guess with the metal cones your speakers have some ingress protection. I once disassembled one of those BT speakers, JBL Charge 3, I think it was called, and turns out they are waterproof simply by having alu cones and rubber gaskets behind mounting points.
Yes, the woofers are the HiVi M4N - most of the gold color is off after a few years of outdoor use. I picked them because I can get decent bass extension in a sealed alignment - plus the one piece aluminum cone and rubber surrounds. They have held up quite well.
Keep an open mind, but don't let your brain fall out.
@ScottS said:
Yes, the woofers are the HiVi M4N - most of the gold color is off after a few years of outdoor use. I picked them because I can get decent bass extension in a sealed alignment - plus the one piece aluminum cone and rubber surrounds. They have held up quite well.
Do you leave them outside unprotected all season long, or do you bring them in or cover them uo to keep them out of the elements? IE Do the speakers get wet?
I built the speakers in the summer of 2020. They were outside all year (in rain, snow, etc. in Iowa) until I took them to DIY Iowa 2021 in October. The cabinets were very beat-up by that time. I started taking them inside for the winter and rebuilt the cabinets in 2023. They never come inside from spring through fall. All drivers are original and are still fully functional.
Keep an open mind, but don't let your brain fall out.
Appreciate the response. My daughter wants me to build a set of outdoor speakers that they plan to do the same thing with; outside spring through fall. I just ordered a set of M series HiVi drivers to use for them, so it's great to hear they've stood up well to the elements!
Comments
Not to hero-worship, but that year Andrew Jones came to InDIYana, he said to me that his preferred solution is a passive crossover with great phase & summation, and then fix the rest with DSP.
I've thought about that a lot.
The biggest argument I can see for passive is that you don't need any fancy cabling and only one amp channel per speaker. When I design and build something, if it has a decent passive crossover, it can be used anywhere.
A completely active speaker that has the amps and active crossover built in sort of meets that criteria, but might be trickier to implement in a surround system.
I think there are advantages to an active system - one of which might be to choose more suitable amps for low and high frequency sections and implementing filters to mitigate certain issues, like unloading of the woofer below tuning in a vented system.
Overall, I would tend to agree with Andrew Jones - especially now that the Topping D50 III is out with a 10 band parametric EQ and great overall performance as a dac/preamp for $229.
Sehlin Sound Solutions
Ditto
It depends on the market. The high end hifi/ audiophile world likes to mix and match to taste and thus like to buy passive systems.
In the professional, PA, automotive, general consumer world almost everything is active/DSP and has been for decades now. And transparent to the end user.
I purchased a second hand digital piano released about a decade ago and it had a custom ASIC for FIR and DSP. And it was a low end model! (~$3000)
It’s certainly cheaper for mass manufacturing and drives the competitive dollar further.
A quick update. As I suggested earlier, I finally got around to replacing my outdoor electronics with the Dayton KAB-2150 tested earlier in this thread. I am quite impressed. It's being powered by a 36V 320W IP67 power supply. Between the power supply, which I picked up on ebay, the amp board and the power switch, I am in for about $70. It sounds clean and powerful, just like the Aiyma A04 and A07 TPA3255 amps. A big step up from the Pyle marine radio I was using before. I'm also getting better distance and stability with the bluetooth connnection, probably due to the included bluetooth antenna that I stuck to an interior side wall of the enclosure. The amp board is going for $30 these days.
Sehlin Sound Solutions
Nice! Those 2150 boards are a good deal and thanks for testing. Where’d you pick up the enclosure?
I made it. Similar construction to the speakers. 1/2" Birch Ply. Two coats of Kilz3, two coats of white duratex, two coats of house paint. I mounted the power supply (36V supply pictured on page 1 about a third of the way down the page) to the top of the enclosure. Amp board is on the bottom side, along with a biwire speaker terminal cup and IEC connector for power. I bought the power switch on Amazon. The rear of the enclosure is sized to hang on the deck railing so it is secure, but fairly easy to lift off for the winter or to work on. The rear panel (facing the railing) is removable. Next time I have it apart, I'll take a picture or two of the inside.
Sehlin Sound Solutions
Very cool. I'd like to have an outdoor speaker that doesn't sound like tinny junk. I guess with the metal cones your speakers have some ingress protection. I once disassembled one of those BT speakers, JBL Charge 3, I think it was called, and turns out they are waterproof simply by having alu cones and rubber gaskets behind mounting points.
Yes, the woofers are the HiVi M4N - most of the gold color is off after a few years of outdoor use. I picked them because I can get decent bass extension in a sealed alignment - plus the one piece aluminum cone and rubber surrounds. They have held up quite well.
Sehlin Sound Solutions
Do you leave them outside unprotected all season long, or do you bring them in or cover them uo to keep them out of the elements? IE Do the speakers get wet?
I built the speakers in the summer of 2020. They were outside all year (in rain, snow, etc. in Iowa) until I took them to DIY Iowa 2021 in October. The cabinets were very beat-up by that time. I started taking them inside for the winter and rebuilt the cabinets in 2023. They never come inside from spring through fall. All drivers are original and are still fully functional.
Sehlin Sound Solutions
Appreciate the response. My daughter wants me to build a set of outdoor speakers that they plan to do the same thing with; outside spring through fall. I just ordered a set of M series HiVi drivers to use for them, so it's great to hear they've stood up well to the elements!
I named my speakers "Manganese" and posted a thread about them on this forum (and my linked web page) if you want some more details about that design.
Sehlin Sound Solutions