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Purifi

dcibeldcibel
in DIY
If anyone subscribes to the AudioXpress "Audio Voice" newsletter, there's an interesting interview with the guys from Purifi Audio there. This is a company with some real big engineering talent. A Basic rundown of what they have going on can be found here:



From the interview I gathered that in the research conducted by these guys over many years, they've determined that variance of inductance over the voice coil movement range is of utmost importance over anything else. They've got some interesting new amplifiers in the works, and a very impressive looking 6.5" midwoofer. They also are including a fair bit more data in their product literature than what you usually get from other manufacturers. No mention of price, but I'm sure it's top dollar.

Since the interview is included in a free newsletter, I was going to repost it here, but I get errors about the body of the post being too long.



I'm not deaf, I'm just not listening.
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Comments

  • jr@macjr@mac
    LeX matters? Revolutionary.
    I have a signature.
  • dcibeldcibel
    edited June 2019
    :/

    How about some positivity about a new high end player in the market that isn't just a bunch of fluff.
    I'm not deaf, I'm just not listening.
  • R-CarpenterR-Carpenter
    Well, we'll see. So far, lots of claims and platitudes but that is normal. Don't know much about amp design but the data posted on the driver looks normal. I don't see anything revolutionary there. May be someone could explain.
  • dcibeldcibel
    Some review and 3rd party test data.


    I'm not deaf, I'm just not listening.
  • rjj45rjj45
    I really like that they are specifically addressing IMD. Normal HD is incredibly low. Somewhat sadly, looks like it will retail for  $350. We will see.
    But Chahly - Stahkist don't want speakers that look good, Stahkist wants speakers that sound good!
  • dcibeldcibel
    Just buy 8 of them, much more affordable :)
    rjj45
    I'm not deaf, I'm just not listening.
  • ani_101ani_101
    at 230, might be worth a look, at 390, the satori is miles ahead... for performance / price point of view and the illuminator provides the long stoke for cheaper - may not be able to combine all aspects, but the 400$ price tag puts it in the good to look at category but not really useful like the elipticor or the graphene seas which are over 600 not to mention the accuton mids pushing the 1k mark.

    But innovation is good like the bilesma tweeter - practical applications ???
  • ani_101ani_101
    edited November 2019
    Actually i am confused. I like smaller driver that can go low. I am sort of taken it that I want my bookshelves to hit at least f3 of below 50 vented. that gives it a good balance of being small, portable, good imaging and decent bass at least for music and can be achieved with decent 5.5" drivers. 45 f3 with 4 inchers is a bit more rare - but a few exisits, but sometimes call for inordinately large cabinets at which point might just increase the driver size as it's no longer smaller.

    Given the crop of the 6.5 - 7 inchers - which combined with big robust tweeters capable of composed highs being crossed over at 1800 or so at high SPLs, there is a promise of near or below 40Hz in a two way book shelf speakers that seem to be simple and provide all the low end you need.

    But, then i miss the surface area - I can definitely feel the difference between a 15inch with an f3 of 35 vs a 7inch/8inch even if they are dual woofers with the same f3 playing the same music at the same SPL. The 15inch might have a minuscule Xmax, requires a huge box.... but.... but... 

    Also it's much easier to make really good quality and exotic cabinets when they are small....
    mjgeorge
  • rjj45rjj45
    ani_101 said:
    at 230, might be worth a look, at 390, the satori is miles ahead... for performance / price point of view and the illuminator provides the long stoke for cheaper - may not be able to combine all aspects, but the 400$ price tag puts it in the good to look at category but not really useful like the elipticor or the graphene seas which are over 600 not to mention the accuton mids pushing the 1k mark.

    But innovation is good like the bilesma tweeter - practical applications ???
    I really like the Satoris that I've heard and used, but I wish that they would publish the kind of comprehensive tests and graphs that the Purifi show. I like the fact that they are pushing engineering and tests. We've all heard drivers that measure pretty much the same, but sound very different. We have FEA and 32 bit A/D that did not exist in the past - we should be able to quantify and prove what we hear.
    But Chahly - Stahkist don't want speakers that look good, Stahkist wants speakers that sound good!
  • ani_101ani_101
    rjj45 said:
    ani_101 said:
    at 230, might be worth a look, at 390, the satori is miles ahead... for performance / price point of view and the illuminator provides the long stoke for cheaper - may not be able to combine all aspects, but the 400$ price tag puts it in the good to look at category but not really useful like the elipticor or the graphene seas which are over 600 not to mention the accuton mids pushing the 1k mark.

    But innovation is good like the bilesma tweeter - practical applications ???
    I really like the Satoris that I've heard and used, but I wish that they would publish the kind of comprehensive tests and graphs that the Purifi show. I like the fact that they are pushing engineering and tests. We've all heard drivers that measure pretty much the same, but sound very different. We have FEA and 32 bit A/D that did not exist in the past - we should be able to quantify and prove what we hear.
    Definitely agree. The more comprehensive tests, white papers and test conditions the better, especially for exotic drivers without a long history. While that might help to get the for in the door, independent testing and testing in your rig and the overall design you will implement is still critical. Even in HiFi's test there are describing within the publisher specs and test criteria, which the manufactures were able to clarify.

    So, do we put down 800 bucks to try vs tried and tested, who's taking the first step.

    I'll take the second step.... Something but, test and decided it's not fir you and then sell it to me at a discount.... 

    Group buy???
  • PaulEbertPaulEbert
    Comparing the Purifi and the Satori (MW16P4) on the HifiCompass site, it looks to me that the Purifi is quite a bit better than the Satori in regards to frequency response and HD. It will be interesting to compare it to the forthcoming Textreme Satori.  It's definately on the short list for the uber build I intend to do for myself, though it's appearance is rather off-putting.  I'd love to see them develop a dedicated midrange.
    rjj45
  • rjj45rjj45
    edited November 2019
    PaulEbert said:
    Comparing the Purifi and the Satori (MW16P4) on the HifiCompass site, it looks to me that the Purifi is quite a bit better than the Satori in regards to frequency response and HD. It will be interesting to compare it to the forthcoming Textreme Satori.  It's definately on the short list for the uber build I intend to do for myself, though it's appearance is rather off-putting.  I'd love to see them develop a dedicated midrange.
    These guys appear to be effing serious, probably with backers $$ to match. I'd expect a nice midrange sooner than later.
    But Chahly - Stahkist don't want speakers that look good, Stahkist wants speakers that sound good!
  • jr@macjr@mac
    That looks pretty good 
    I have a signature.
  • dcibeldcibel
    rjj45 said:
    These guys appear to be effing serious, probably with backers $$ to match. I'd expect a nice midrange sooner than later.
    Yeah, there's some real industry professionals behind Purifi, it's not some newbie engineering startup. As far as the price goes, they have some special parts and they are probably producing in small qty, hence the price break if you buy a handful. If they become popular I'm sure you will see price adjustments and a more complete product line.

    The cone treatment and surround are a bit odd to look at, but appear to do the trick. I don't know how many times I've seen a proper high end driver, and someone will always comment about the dip in the response and the bump in the impedance, and yes the Satori is one of those, especially the higher sensitivity midrange. Debatable audibility, but hifi is about over-engineering, and it's an engineering problem with a solution.

    These drivers are expensive, don't get me wrong, but they do also have performance to back it, and provide more data than most other manufacturer, and data that isn't fluff. Ever looked at a datasheet for an Eton driver?
    I'm not deaf, I'm just not listening.
  • DanPDanP
    If Hifi Compass can be trusted, this driver has lower HD in the 300 - 2000Hz range than anything else on the website, and they're claiming to have minimized IMD as well.  Where did you guys get the pricing info from, or just guessing?
    rjj45
  • dcibeldcibel
    DanP said:
    Where did you guys get the pricing info from, or just guessing?

    Read the review in its entirety, or just search for the "$".
    I'm not deaf, I'm just not listening.
  • rjj45rjj45
    edited November 2019
    dcibel said:
    DanP said:
    Where did you guys get the pricing info from, or just guessing?

    Read the review in its entirety, or just search for the "$".
    missed that $$. I was guessing. A bit rich for my wallet, but not ATC or Accuton high. They may come down a bit when they get the distributor network going. I forget who, but someone on PETT was going to do a build with a $600 Morel mid (IIRC). yikes
    But Chahly - Stahkist don't want speakers that look good, Stahkist wants speakers that sound good!
  • jhollanderjhollander
    Dan maybe they need a US distributor?
    ohitsuTodd
     John H, btw forum has decided I don't get emails
  • DanPDanP
    jhollander said:
    Dan maybe they need a US distributor?
    That might be interesting...

    Even if we don't go that route, $230 each for 8 drivers is Revelator pricing and they measure considerably better than Revelators.  A 4 person group buy seems pretty doable.  
    rjj45
  • jhollanderjhollander
    Yeah but now add in the tweeter...If you are serious let me know and I'll ask the boss.
     John H, btw forum has decided I don't get emails
  • DanPDanP
    jhollander said:
    Yeah but now add in the tweeter...If you are serious let me know and I'll ask the boss.
    Once they get the store up and running, we'll see if the prices hold and what shipping will add.  I'll let you know if I'm serious then.  
    rjj45PWRRYD
  • ani_101ani_101
    I am serious... But not I need to also budget for a serious tweeter... Is getting too serious....
    DanP
  • PaulEbertPaulEbert
    I'd be interested in a group buy, though I might want to wait on a smaller driver and/or the Textremes. I've already purchased TL N26MGR-As for my build, but I'm thinking of getting Bliesma's instead (haven't decided between the T25A-6 or T34A-4).
    PWRRYD
  • dcibeldcibel
    I found the P.S. about the hysteresis effects of a complex signal vs sine wave particularly interesting, and the part about segmenting the frame where it attaches to the motor is pretty clever, one of those "I'm surprised this is the first time I'm seeing this" type of things.

    Also surprising on Hificompass is the test results of the Ellipticor tweeter, miserable HD results.
    I'm not deaf, I'm just not listening.
  • NavyGuyNavyGuy
    dcibel said:
    I found the P.S. about the hysteresis effects of a complex signal vs sine wave particularly interesting, and the part about segmenting the frame where it attaches to the motor is pretty clever, one of those "I'm surprised this is the first time I'm seeing this" type of things.

    Also surprising on Hificompass is the test results of the Ellipticor tweeter, miserable HD results.
    The hificompass measurements don't match what Van posted in Voice Coil at all. I wonder if they got a bad tweeter.
  • dcibeldcibel
    edited November 2019
    NavyGuy said:
    dcibel said:
    I found the P.S. about the hysteresis effects of a complex signal vs sine wave particularly interesting, and the part about segmenting the frame where it attaches to the motor is pretty clever, one of those "I'm surprised this is the first time I'm seeing this" type of things.

    Also surprising on Hificompass is the test results of the Ellipticor tweeter, miserable HD results.
    The hificompass measurements don't match what Van posted in Voice Coil at all. I wonder if they got a bad tweeter.
    Hificompass got 4 tweeters and published the results of the best one :#

    I don't see the tweeter tests from Voice Coil online, but they did publish the woofer for the public. It has a bit wonky frequency response, but the HD is extraordinary. I always did wonder why they skipped the slit cone on the Ellipticor. Anyway, one would expect the tweeter to have similarly excellent performance.
    I'm not deaf, I'm just not listening.
  • NavyGuyNavyGuy
    edited November 2019
    dcibel said:
    NavyGuy said:
    dcibel said:
    I found the P.S. about the hysteresis effects of a complex signal vs sine wave particularly interesting, and the part about segmenting the frame where it attaches to the motor is pretty clever, one of those "I'm surprised this is the first time I'm seeing this" type of things.

    Also surprising on Hificompass is the test results of the Ellipticor tweeter, miserable HD results.
    The hificompass measurements don't match what Van posted in Voice Coil at all. I wonder if they got a bad tweeter.
    Hificompass got 4 tweeters and published the results of the best one :#

    I don't see the tweeter tests from Voice Coil online, but they did publish the woofer for the public. It has a bit wonky frequency response, but the HD is extraordinary. I always did wonder why they skipped the slit cone on the Ellipticor. Anyway, one would expect the tweeter to have similarly excellent performance.

    It has some strange second order stuff going on (maybe the odd surround shape?) but the third order is basically non-existent. Maybe they had issues with a production run. I imagine these are much different and more complicated to produce than there other stuff.

    https://www.audioxpress.com/article/test-bench-the-new-ellipticor-d3404-552000-tweeter-from-scan-speak
    dcibel
  • dcibeldcibel
    Just looking at the Purifi site again today, there is a matching Passive radiator listed for the 6.5" driver above, as well as a 4" driver coming with also...10mm xmax. This looks to be aimed at small hifi systems like Sonos or Apple things that are currently available.

    I clicked the Tech page, too, the top 2 Articles were pretty interesting about low frequency distortion and cone mass vs speed.


    I'm not deaf, I'm just not listening.
  • ani_101ani_101
    I like small drivers with big xmax and small Vas.... might have to try that one too with active amplification....

    The 6.5 driver and the PR looks like they are available...
  • ani_101ani_101
    Are the amps complete units or require separate  power supplies? Don't know much about amps to tell... but they seem to be 2 ohm stable... 

    https://purifi-audio.com/eigentakt/
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